New Home Studio build in Japan

Start your own studio thread here: Goals, plans, layouts, treatment, speakers, questions, queries, comments...
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Starlight
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New Home Studio build in Japan

#16

Postby Starlight » Sun, 2020-Oct-11, 16:33

kwow wrote:Source of the postI'm not doubting your knowledge or anything.
You would be wise to question what every non-professional does or says, including me!
kwow wrote:Source of the post... an image I found on GS here by John both have the ceiling gypsums staggered.
John is my studio designer. In working with him I have come to appreciate that he knows exactly what he instructs and so that diagram would be worth following. Any questions you have regarding it would be worth asking John as I think he would be gracious enough to clarify what he has publicly posted.

In my studio I did the walls almost like that, the difference being that I have no air pockets as I filled them with caulk.
kwow wrote:Source of the post... the plan is stuffing 13mm backer road into 9mm-10mm space ... Do you think that's ok?
I do.
kwow wrote:Source of the postI'm also reconsidering having 3 layers of gypsum. I may go with 2 layers of gypsum with green glue instead ...
If you need maximum isolation consider 2 layers of gypsum, Green Glue, and then the 3rd layer of gypsum. If you need to keep your costs down I would do as you said: two layers with Green Glue inbetween. In the reference section Stuart has a topic about Green Glue which might be worth reading before you commit to your plan. Green Glue seems to be expensive everywhere, but for a studio it seems to be the best, so a cost that is worth it.



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New Home Studio build in Japan

#17

Postby SoWhat » Sun, 2020-Oct-11, 22:17

Green Glue seems to be expensive everywhere


Indeed. Green Glue seems to be occupying a not-insubstantial part of my building budget.



kwow
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New Home Studio build in Japan

#18

Postby kwow » Mon, 2020-Oct-12, 04:20

Starlight wrote:Source of the post You would be wise to question what every non-professional does or says, including me!

Ok, I will question people from now on ... or should I be questioning the above sentence as well? Just kidding :)

As for green glue, I am considering it but if I do use it, it will be just 2 layer of gypsum per leaf. 3 would be nice but can't afford it. Thanks Starlight!

SoWhat wrote:Source of the post Indeed. Green Glue seems to be occupying a not-insubstantial part of my building budget.

I bet! Are you doing lot of layers?

The architect just told me that it's possible to keep the top part of the studio foundation separate from the rest of the foundation with expansion joint! This is good news. If anyone knows if the expansion joint need to be a particular kind or not, please let me know. Rod's book just says something like " ... expansion joint material and then caulked to keep the moisture out".

Also if anyone knows anything about dirt vs. sand for the filling of the studio foundation + what kind, please let me know as well.

Thank you!
Keith



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Starlight
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New Home Studio build in Japan

#19

Postby Starlight » Mon, 2020-Oct-12, 04:42

kwow wrote:Source of the postAlso if anyone knows anything about dirt vs. sand for the filling of the studio foundation + what kind, please let me know as well.
This is really a question for a structural engineer as it will dependent upon how much weight it has to bear, what local building codes require, and what anti-earthquake requirements there are.

Jason Foi is well studied and his reply on Gearslutz sounds logical:
Jason Foi wrote:Just wanted to chime in on the sand vs dirt thing, i would use the dirt with crushed rock thats used for grading and pack it well. I'd be too scared that sand would allow the structure to shift over time.



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New Home Studio build in Japan

#20

Postby kwow » Mon, 2020-Oct-12, 13:24

Hi Starlight

Starlight wrote:Source of the post This is really a question for a structural engineer as it will dependent upon how much weight it has to bear, what local building codes require, and what anti-earthquake requirements there are.

It cleared with the structural engineer and it's good with the building code, etc.

But it's good to know that Jason is well studied :)

Thanks!
Keith



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New Home Studio build in Japan

#21

Postby SoWhat » Mon, 2020-Oct-12, 16:00

Are you doing lot of layers?


Just two, but still...



kwow
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#22

Postby kwow » Tue, 2020-Oct-13, 02:06

SoWhat wrote:Source of the post Just two, but still...

Yeah, I hear you.



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#23

Postby kwow » Thu, 2020-Oct-15, 00:08

So I mentioned before that I was recommended the use of sand to fill the studio foundation by Stuart. And a different person on another forum suggested compacted earth with gravel. I contacted an old buddy of mine who is an architect who also has build a few studios. I’m going to post what he wrote me below (with his permission, of course) since I thought it could be useful to someone. But do remember that this is specific to my situation so it may not apply to all situations.


He wrote:

“So the main reason for “dead sand” is that there is no organic matter that can hold moisture and that is dry and clean- sometimes it is sifted as well- concrete sand would probably be okay as well.  A layer gravel or pulverized rock at the bottom of that basin of the concrete that is the foundation is fine as well - my main concern is that the sand is fully sifted down into the gravel- some light compaction might be in order as long as it is ok for the lower concrete slab. By the way with the slab sandwich that you have all sand is best but the gravel is typically cheaper- if all sand is in the budget go with all sand. (Its not a whole house just 1 room so the price difference may be negligible as you won’t have to pay for gravel and sand four that second pour that is your studio floor.)

Btw sand below concrete over crushed rock or gravel is typical construction so I would not be concerned, and because you have that concrete basin that you are filling in with the sand or sand/gravel and pouring a slab over it will not shift as it has nowhere to go. Its not like it is interacting with a water table or anything.

So “dry sand” which is clean sand without organic matter is also acceptable if it is cheaper than dead sand -it is basically the same but sometimes the name “dead sand “ creates a higher price. Typically 100mm minimum layer of sand.

As far as dirt instead of sand- I would be concerned with dirt as it may hold moisture which will be encapsulated within your foundation thus creating a situation whereas the moisture content of the dirt changes and causes cracks in your slab. (It will change if it has moisture as the lower slab will suck it out)

Also do you know if they are planning to put a layer of insulation and/or plastic sheeting (as a moisture/capillary break) under the slab? The capillary break is typically a minimum (California code requires it) and insulation is common but not required - I think skipping insulation would be fine as it mostly keeps heat from getting sucked out through the floor and I don’t see that as a problem, and maybe an advantage. Also either or both might be under the base slab so if so you shouldn’t need either under the studio floor slab.

Well that is my input on this issue”


I had never even heard of “dead sand” or “dry sand” before. In fact, only kind of sand that I’d known about was “playground sand” which I had used in the past to fill the DIY speaker stands I made. Anyway, I thought I’d put this information out there in case someone finds it interesting.

I’m going to be posting some questions about ceiling soon.

Keith



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New Home Studio build in Japan

#24

Postby kwow » Fri, 2020-Oct-16, 12:06

Ceiling/Roof framing. Alternative Designs.

Hi Everyone

I have thought of 2 alternative designs to lower the height of the studio roof (not the inner ceiling height) to potentially save on space and money. I'm being charged by the square meter for material and labor so even 10-20cm makes a difference.

The ceiling hight is already set at 336cm. The ventilation system will be above the outer shell so where I can make adjustments would be between the ceiling joists of the inner and outer shell.

1st design is to have the ceiling joists of the inner shell attached “above” the wall framing instead of within it. I saw a guy on youtube do something like this where ceiling space was limited. As you can see in the images below (this one might be a little hard to see/understand) just the ceiling joists are sticking out above, these joists will fit in between the ceiling joists of the outer shell without touching them. Since the ceiling joists of the inner and outer shell would be kind of next to each other, the height of the building can be lower maybe by 40-50cm.

The only concern with this is strength. I’m waiting to hear back from the architect and structural engineer to see if this is doable. I thought this was an interesting space saving design. Do you all see any potential problem with this design other than strength? Maybe like I won't be able to completely stuff between the joists with insulation, etc.

staggered1.jpeg

staggered2.jpeg




2nd design is to have the ceiling drywall attached above the ceiling joists instead of below.
As you can see in the image below, the ceiling drywall are attached on top of the ceiling joists instead of being attached under the joists. The joists for the inner shell will be showing below the ceiling while keeping the ceiling height the same. A possible advantage to this design is that I can utilize spaces between the exposed joists for ceiling acoustic treatment by stuffing them with insulation and covering with fabric. This way I wouldn’t need to build framing specifically for the ceiling treatment.

upsidedown1.jpeg


A potential problem with this approach is that there will be exposed joist every meter or so meaning the drywall have to be cut around these joists which will create more intricate small areas that need to be sealed as seen in the image. I could stagger the drywall all around except for these areas right around the joists.

Do any of you think this is a problem, or do you think this would be O.K.? I’d like to hear your thoughts.


Thanks,
Keith



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New Home Studio build in Japan

#25

Postby SoWhat » Fri, 2020-Oct-16, 19:06

Greetings Keith,

While I'm certainly not qualified to give an opinion on Design #1, I can tell you that #2 seems like a lot of extra work. It also would interfere with the (proper) caulking of the outer shell drywall.

All the best,

Paul



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#26

Postby endorka » Sat, 2020-Oct-17, 04:50

Keith is the 2nd design essentially an inside out ceiling? Stuart has written about this;

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=50

Cheers,
Jennifer



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#27

Postby kwow » Sat, 2020-Oct-17, 05:04

SoWhat wrote:Source of the post Greetings Keith,

While I'm certainly not qualified to give an opinion on Design #1, I can tell you that #2 seems like a lot of extra work. It also would interfere with the (proper) caulking of the outer shell drywall.

All the best,

Paul


Hi Paul

Thanks for your reply :)

I agree that #2 is perhaps more work: meaning more $ (or "yen" in my case) for the labor, and question of proper caulking (including more chance of mistakes) is also a good point. Thanks!


endorka wrote:Source of the post Keith is the 2nd design essentially an inside out ceiling? Stuart has written about this;

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=50

Cheers,
Jennifer


Hi Jennifer,

Yeah, mine is a "sudo" upside down ceiling so it's not really the same (with my design, proper caulking is difficult as Paul mentioned). I think, I may have gotten the initial idea from the link you posted for me but I don't even remember. I've been reading and drawing too much. haha. Thank you!

Keith



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#28

Postby kwow » Mon, 2020-Oct-19, 10:44

As I mentioned before, the builders are building the whole studio except for the Acoustic Treatment which I will do later myself. I have some concerns about how, where, and how far from the wall surface I should have the mini-split AC, lighting, light switches, outlets, and ventilations attached.

I’m planning on building the treatment directly on the walls and not hanging a bunch of panels. The reasons are it’s probably easier to build that way, it’ll look nicer, and I’m afraid of things falling down with earthquakes, etc. But as of now, I don’t know how thick the treatments are going to be or how much of the walls are going to be covered (probably a pretty large percentage). I also want the ceiling treatment “built-in/on” if possible.

For outlets and light switches, instead of doing this
electric-wire-switch.jpg

and this
Putty-Pads.jpg

I’m thinking of doing something like this (except it'll be on drywall).
outlet_exposed.jpg


By using surface-mounted electrical boxes and conduits I can have all the electrical brought into the studio from one area of a wall, and once inside, they can branch off through conduits to different locations without all the wires running inside the walls. This will also eliminate the need to use putty pads for the boxes. Generally speaking, does this sound like a good idea?

If so, how should the boxes and conduit be attached to the walls Directly onto the drywall, or put some wooden strips, studs or something first? If using wooden strips, how should the wood be attached to the walls? Screws, staples, adhesive, etc. I’m just paranoid about making bunch of holes and compromising the isolation.

I saw someone saying “You can also mount electrical boxes in your Acoustic Treatment. Example if you need outlets where the bass trap is, you can have an electrical box in the trap itself.” I suppose if I can built these electrical boxes into the treatment then I wouldn’t have to worry so much about how far away from the walls I need to have them attached.

The same person mentioned “You can also use track lighting or other surface mount options.” This will allow me to keep things simple, and I like the idea. But if I was to have most or all of the ceiling treated, using track lighting (instead of having lights built into the treatment), I would need the tracks mounted away from the ceiling or the treatment might interfere with the lights. Since I don’t know how big the treatment is going to be, I’m not sure how to best approach this. I was thinking of using flexible conduit instead of the rigid kind right by the lighting fixture so I can later adjust or change the placement of the tracks and lights as I install the ceiling treatment. What do you all think of this? Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Ventilation: I’m going to have 2 intake and 2 exhaust on the ceiling. I assume I would just work around these with the treatment since they need to be sealed right at the ceiling? They look like the picture below.
daiken_vent.jpg


Here’s my biggest question (of the day). Where to place the mini-split AC unit. And do I just not have any treatment around the ac unit, or do I have them installed away from the wall by say 12”-14” or something so that the treatment wouldn’t block the air flow? Is there a typical approach that’s taken for this?

Looking at the image below, considering where the door(s) are located, do the location/direction of the speakers seem ok? I was thinking it’s better this way for treating the first reflection area. Or should the setup be turned around?
studio1.jpg


Thank you all as always!
Keith



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#29

Postby SoWhat » Mon, 2020-Oct-19, 14:23

Greetings Keith,

Yes, the surface mount electrical is a good idea since it requires only one (major) wall penetration. You can attach the boxes and raceways directly to the drywall: once the anchor and screw is in place, it plugs the hole you've created. I don't know if Wiremold (brand name from Legrand) is available in Japan, but it is cleaner looking (and paintable) than what you've pictured. Be aware that surface mounted fixtures are more expensive: but if you're springing for Green Glue, this won't hurt AS much.

All the best,

Paul



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New Home Studio build in Japan

#30

Postby kwow » Tue, 2020-Oct-20, 01:33

Hi Paul

Good to know that surface mount is an effective way to keep the number of wall penetration to minimum. I didn't know that those things were called "raceways", That's cool :)

And anchor and screw that you speak of are like the ones in the picture below?
anchor_screw.jpg

I think I had read a thread where you and Stuart were talking about Wiremold/Legrand. They look nice. I'm not sure if I can get them here in Japan but I'll look for something that look nicer than the picture I posted.

Yeah, the green glue thing. By reducing the number of drywall layers (from 3 to 2) with labor cost, I was able to save a couple of grand so that pays for about half of the GG. I also made the studio dimension smaller than I had originally planned so that made it a few grand less. But as I cut back on the cost of something, it seems that something else pops up that's even more expensive. I'll have to see if I have any money left for furniture after the house is built (haha).

Thank you for your input!
Keith




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