Garden Music Room, UK

Start your own studio thread here: Goals, plans, layouts, treatment, speakers, questions, queries, comments...
SCL135
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Joined: Sun, 2021-Apr-25, 14:23
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Garden Music Room, UK

#1

Postby SCL135 » Sun, 2021-May-02, 12:28

Hi folks. Great forum. It’s great to find such a wealth of information to help with the daunting task of building a music studio! I would like your advice on my own build if you don’t mind.

I live in the UK, just outside Glasgow. I’m planning to build a music room in my garden. I have attached plans showing the proposed construction. I would like to achieve 50dB of transmission loss/sound isolation. Do you think my proposals will achieve this level of isolation?

A concern I have is that my roof construction is not the best solution available and could be improved upon. I would be very grateful for all your opinions and any recommendations you may have. Many thanks.
Attachments
GRCC-003 Studio Plan, Section & Render.pdf
(280.07 KiB) Downloaded 1005 times
GRCC-003 Studio Plan, Section & Render.pdf
(280.07 KiB) Downloaded 1005 times
GRCC-002 Plan & Section As Proposed.pdf
(4.49 MiB) Downloaded 711 times
GRCC-002 Plan & Section As Proposed.pdf
(4.49 MiB) Downloaded 711 times
GRCC-001 Plan & Section As Existing.pdf
(4.53 MiB) Downloaded 811 times
GRCC-001 Plan & Section As Existing.pdf
(4.53 MiB) Downloaded 811 times



garethmetcalf
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Garden Music Room, UK

#2

Postby garethmetcalf » Wed, 2021-May-05, 06:20

Hi SCL135 and welcome

I'm nearing the end of a garden music room, a few hundred miles south of you near Nottingham. I have a few comments about the plans you've got but these are only really observations on the PDFs. It would be helpful to get some more information from you about proposed usage for the room.

Comments:
1. Your design shows two wall leafs, and it is noted that they are not connected with wall ties. However they are then linked at the top to the single roof leaf, albeit of a concrete construction. To me this suggests that the roof will simply transmit sound from the inner wall leaf to the outer?
2. The roof is constructed of concrete roof slabs. I've never worked with these but I would imagine that getting a decent seal between them could be quite hard, and I'm also unsure how the mass of the proposed ceiling compares to the mass of the proposed walls - ideally they need to be the same.
3. The entrance doors fill up the majority of the back wall, which is where, for a room for mixing music you want the majority of your bass treatment.

Hope this is vaguely helpful as a start point!

Cheers
Gareth



SCL135
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Posts: 9
Joined: Sun, 2021-Apr-25, 14:23
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Garden Music Room, UK

#3

Postby SCL135 » Fri, 2021-May-07, 15:29

Hi Gareth,

Thanks for taking the time to post. Much appreciated. I’ve been reading through your design and construction threads. Your build seems to be progressing well. It’s looking great. Well done. It looks very similar to what I’m planning to build.
garethmetcalf wrote:Source of the post
Comments:
1. Your design shows two wall leafs, and it is noted that they are not connected with wall ties. However they are then linked at the top to the single roof leaf, albeit of a concrete construction. To me this suggests that the roof will simply transmit sound from the inner wall leaf to the outer.

I share your thoughts on the the roof connecting the inner and outer wall leaves at the top thereby creating a weak point for sound transmission. The reason I opted for concrete block walls and a concrete roof slab was to gain more isolation because of their mass. I noticed you have opted for a double leaf timber wall and roof structure on your build. What transmission loss are you hoping to achieve?
garethmetcalf wrote:Source of the post
3. The entrance doors fill up the majority of the back wall, which is where, for a room for mixing music you want the majority of your bass treatment.

In terms of the entrance doors my thinking was to fix the acoustic treatment directly to the internal solid wooden doors. I would leave these open if I was just using the room as an office to get the natural light from the external sliding glass doors. However I also like what you have done with the glass doors and windows on the side of your build.

Cheers
David



SCL135
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Posts: 9
Joined: Sun, 2021-Apr-25, 14:23
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Garden Music Room, UK

#4

Postby SCL135 » Mon, 2021-May-10, 12:30

Hi Gareth,

Thanks for taking the time to post. It’s much appreciated. I replied last week but it hasn’t appeared so I’ll try again.

I’ve been reading through your design and construction threads. Your build seems to be progressing well. It’s looking great. Well done. It looks very similar to what I’m planning to build.
garethmetcalf wrote:Source of the post
Comments:
1. Your design shows two wall leafs, and it is noted that they are not connected with wall ties. However they are then linked at the top to the single roof leaf, albeit of a concrete construction. To me this suggests that the roof will simply transmit sound from the inner wall leaf to the outer?

I share your thoughts on the the roof connecting the inner and outer wall leaves at the top thereby creating a weak point for sound transmission. The reason I opted for concrete block walls and a concrete roof slab was to gain more isolation because of their mass. I noticed you have opted for a double leaf timber wall and roof structure on your build. What transmission loss are you hoping to achieve?
garethmetcalf wrote:Source of the post 3. The entrance doors fill up the majority of the back wall, which is where, for a room for mixing music you want the majority of your bass treatment.

In terms of the entrance doors my thinking was to fix the acoustic treatment directly to the internal solid wooden doors. I would leave these open if I was just using the room as an office to get the natural light from the external sliding glass doors. However, I also like what you have done with the glass door and window on the front of your build which has given me some food for thought.

Cheers
David



SCL135
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Posts: 9
Joined: Sun, 2021-Apr-25, 14:23
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Garden Music Room, UK

#5

Postby SCL135 » Tue, 2021-May-18, 16:31

Can someone tell me why my posts are not appearing please?

Cheers
David



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endorka
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Garden Music Room, UK

#6

Postby endorka » Tue, 2021-May-18, 18:14

I can see them now.



SCL135
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Garden Music Room, UK

#7

Postby SCL135 » Wed, 2021-May-19, 06:14

Thanks Jennifer. I was beginning to think I was too much of an eejit to use this forum! :)

I’ll try again.



garethmetcalf
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Garden Music Room, UK

#8

Postby garethmetcalf » Wed, 2021-May-19, 06:40

Hi David
How odd! I can see your replies now so that's great.

In terms of transmission loss I'd calculated the following, but it seems optimistic as it doesn't take into account the UPVC glazed door and window which are certainly the weakest link:

frequency (f) Isolation (R), dB
16Hz 11dB
32Hz 52dB
64Hz 58dB
125Hz 64dB
250Hz 70dB
500Hz 72dB
1000Hz 72dB
2000Hz 72dB
4000Hz 72dB
8000Hz 72dB
16000Hz 72dB

Your door mounted insulation could work - there's another thread on here were that's been done and the results are quite successful. For me I wanted natural light all the time. As I said the weak link is the UPVC window so if I were to build again I would try and make that a solid pane of glass like my inside window is. I was trying to find a compromise with how it looks.

I did take some measurements of the real life sound reduction but had my SPL meter on the wrong settings. Ever since then when I've thought to take measurements there's been loads of background noise in the gardens etc. I need to do it in the evening! What I can tell you is with music playing inside at around 100dB it's only slightly audible in the garden. And I won't be working at 100dB, so it's a success. Even more importantly, I don't hear my neighbours mowing lawns and things when I'm inside the room, or the rain on the roof or windows.

Good luck with refining the plan!

Cheers
Gareth



SCL135
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Garden Music Room, UK

#9

Postby SCL135 » Sun, 2021-May-23, 17:13

Hi all,

So I have been deliberating over the construction of my music room since my initial post. I felt my original wall and roof construction details left a lot to be desired. So I set out to compare different wall constructions using INSUL software to see how different combinations of materials affect the transmission loss. I’ve attached a graph showing the findings.

The long and short of it is that I have opted to go with an “inside out” form of construction for the roof and walls as per Wall 4 on the TL comparison graph. My amended plan is attached also. This gives me an internal shell which is completely decoupled from the outer shell. The new wall construction results in a slightly smaller internal floor area but the isolation values are good and constructing the wall/roof in this way will hopefully form a big part of the acoustic treatment of the room.

Cheers
David
Attachments
GRCC-003 Studio Plan, Section & Render RevA.pdf
(546.3 KiB) Downloaded 738 times
GRCC-003 Studio Plan, Section & Render RevA.pdf
(546.3 KiB) Downloaded 738 times
Wall TL Comparison.pdf
(266.84 KiB) Downloaded 730 times
Wall TL Comparison.pdf
(266.84 KiB) Downloaded 730 times



garethmetcalf
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Garden Music Room, UK

#10

Postby garethmetcalf » Mon, 2021-May-24, 08:24

Hi
I guess there is a reason why many studios end up being built with these inside out stud walls, and that's probably because they strike a really good compromise of performance, ease of construction, price, etc.

I guess all that remains is to question whether the concrete brick for the outer leaf and concrete for the roof is required, given that you'll be covering the concrete brick with cladding anyways, would it be cheaper and similar performance to use stud and OSB for the outer leaf?

Cheers
Gareth



SCL135
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Joined: Sun, 2021-Apr-25, 14:23
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Garden Music Room, UK

#11

Postby SCL135 » Mon, 2021-May-24, 17:10

garethmetcalf wrote:Source of the post
I guess all that remains is to question whether the concrete brick for the outer leaf and concrete for the roof is required, given that you'll be covering the concrete brick with cladding anyways, would it be cheaper and similar performance to use stud and OSB for the outer leaf?
Part of me was thinking the concrete block and roof slab outer shell was a bit overkill. I’m tempted to go with timber stud/OSB for the outer leaf but I’m a bit concerned about the drop in the low frequency transmission loss values. You seem to be getting good isolation though so maybe I’m overthinking it.

Did you use a specialist supplier for your uPVC window and door?

Also, what insulation did you use?

Cheers
David



garethmetcalf
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Garden Music Room, UK

#12

Postby garethmetcalf » Mon, 2021-May-24, 18:24

I need to do another proper sound level test when it’s quiet outside and I can then share it to give you a real world reading for what performance this kind of build achieves.

I just bought a UPVC door and window with so called acoustic glass, but they are defo the weakest link in my build. I used https://www.modernupvcwindows.co.uk/?gc ... KqEALw_wcB

The insulation Im using in the inside room is Rockwool RWA45, I can’t remember what is in between the leaves but I can find out if you’re interested.

Cheers
Gareth



SCL135
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Garden Music Room, UK

#13

Postby SCL135 » Mon, 2021-May-24, 19:15

Great, thanks for your help.

Yeah I know the uPVC doors are bound to be the weakest link but as you said before it’s trying to strike a balance with how it looks on the outside. Need to keep the wife happy as well!

Cheers
David



garethmetcalf
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Garden Music Room, UK

#14

Postby garethmetcalf » Wed, 2021-May-26, 12:15

Hi David
I did a test last night, and I am getting around 30dB of reduction in level, more at higher frequencies. It's hard to tell at the moment because even at 9.30pm the birds were so loud outside I think my level meter was picking that up rather than the sound coming from the studio!

I'll try late at night sometime, but I have no concerns with the sound reduction I have for my uses. I won't be making 100dB noise inside very often.

Gareth



SCL135
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Joined: Sun, 2021-Apr-25, 14:23
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Garden Music Room, UK

#15

Postby SCL135 » Wed, 2021-May-26, 17:31

Hi Gareth,

You have some noisy birds down there!

Thanks for that. I’m going to get a level meter and check the background noise in my garden. I think the levels will be similar to yours and I can’t imagine I would be reaching 100dB inside either.

Cheers
David




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